In this episode, we asked young people at Slater Elementary School in Burns and Highland Elementary School in Grants Pass about how their schools, their towns, the state of Oregon, and the United States shape who they are. In the process, they told us about other places—other countries, states, towns, and schools—that have contributed to how they understand themselves and who they are becoming. You'll also hear from a few school administrators and parents about how places inform our ideas about ourselves.
Show Notes
Thank you to everyone at Slater Elementary School and Highland Elementary School for welcoming us into their schools, especially the kids who shared their thoughts with us: Ripley, Jayden, Hazel, Sawyer, Stacy, Hanith, and Harshine, Kegan, Cecil, Johnie, Kamden, Kellen, Penelope, Sawyer, Mikeal, Andi, and Tucker.
Thanks also to Leiana, who is pictured in the episode image.
Special thanks to Rafael Otto and everyone at the Children's Institute for their collaboration on this episode and for the work they do in the world.
Transcript
Adam Davis: And can you tell us one more thing about Burns? Like, is there something about Burns that you think most people don't know but you could tell us about?
Cecil: Um, that mostly the speed limit is 55.
Adam Davis: That voice you just heard belongs to Cecil. When we talked to Cecil a few months ago, he was wrapping up second grade at Slater Elementary School in Burns, Oregon. On every episode of this show, The Detour, we try to share voices and perspectives that get us thinking about lives different from our own and that help us think fresh about our own lives, too.
As part of this effort, we regularly try to share the perspectives and voices of young people. And we ask them the same kinds of questions we also discuss with older folks. Questions about community and justice, identity and belonging, and about what it's like to live in community together. The young people you hear from in this episode—and a few slightly older people who work with them—live in Harney County in southeastern Oregon and Josephine County in southwestern Oregon, and they spend a lot of their time at Slater Elementary School and Highland Elementary School.
They talked with us about how their schools, their towns, the state of Oregon, and the United States shape who they are. And they talked about other places too, other countries, other states, other towns and other schools that have contributed to who they are becoming and how they understand themselves.
That's what we're hoping this episode most helps us think about. How we become who we are. And more specifically, how the different places and communities we're part of contribute to this becoming. Throughout the episode, you'll hear two people asking questions. Rafael Otto from the Children's Institute, and me, Adam Davis, from Oregon Humanities. At Slater and at Highland, Raphael and I set up our recording equipment in a small room that held a small table and small chairs, and as we talked to the kids and adults we heard the sounds of school all around us. Bells ringing, announcements getting announced, doors closing and opening, and people moving through the halls from class to class.
We felt lucky to join these places, even if only briefly, and we loved hearing all these young and youngish people think about who they are and how their places are part of them. Maybe throughout this episode you too will think about this. Maybe after listening, you'll talk with some people you know about how your various places and communities are a part of you.
We start today's episode with the folks from Slater Elementary School in Burns. Here's Cecil from [00:03:00] second grade. Can we start, would you say your name and what grade and school you're in?
Cecil: Yeah,
I'm in second grade. I'm in Slater School.
Adam Davis: And can you remind us of your name?
Cecil: Cecil.
Adam Davis: Cecil, second grade, Slater School. Thanks for talking with us. How's second grade going for you?
Cecil: Good.
Adam Davis: Did you, do you remember, did you guys say the Pledge of Allegiance this morning?
Cecil: Yeah.
Adam Davis: What do you think about when you're saying that?
Cecil: Mostly the army.
Adam Davis: The army.
Cecil: Yeah.
Adam Davis: What do you think about when you think about the army?
Cecil: My grandpa.
Adam Davis: He served in the army or he's still in the army?
Cecil: He used to be in the army until he died.
Adam Davis: I'm sorry to hear that. And you know that because your parents talk about him? Yeah. Well, I'm glad your grandfather served in the army. Will you tell me a little bit about Burns? I'm not from Burns. Can you tell me what it's like to live in Burns?
Cecil: Um, it's pretty quiet in Burns. And sometimes it's loud.
Adam Davis: Like when the bell rings in school?
Cecil: Yeah.
Adam Davis: So we just talked about Burns for a minute. What about Oregon? What do you think about Oregon? What is Oregon like for someone who doesn't know Oregon? How do you understand Oregon?
Cecil: Oregon is technically Burns.
Adam Davis: Oregon is technically Burns? That's true. Do you think there's any differences between Oregon and Burns, or are they basically the same thing?
Cecil: They're basically the same thing.
Adam Davis: What about the United States?
Cecil: It's a little different.
Adam Davis: How is it different?
Cecil: Because it's way quieter.
Adam Davis: Which one?
Cecil: The United States.
Adam Davis: As quieter than Burns?
Cecil: Mm-Hmm. quieter than Oregon.
Rafael Otto: Are there some other things about yourself that you could tell us to help us understand who you are?
Cecil: That my brother likes the light on and I don't
Rafael Otto: What, like going to sleep?
Cecil: Mm-Hmm.
Rafael Otto: He likes the light on you. You don't? What else?
Adam Davis: How do you guys work that out? How do you decide whether the light stays on or not?
Cecil: I tell him to use his nightlight. [00:06:00]
Adam Davis: And is he older than you or younger than you?
Cecil: Younger.
Adam Davis: And can you tell us one more thing about Burns? Like is there something about Burns that you think most people don't know, but you could tell us about?
Cecil: That mostly the speed limit is 55.
Adam Davis: Here's Kamden from fourth grade. For starters, can you tell us your name, what grade you're in, and the school?
Kamden: My name is Kamden. I'm in fourth grade and I'm in Slater Elementary.
Adam Davis: Is Slater a big part of who you are?
Kamden: Eh, kinda.
Adam Davis: How?
Kamden: Hmm, I don't know. It makes me smarter.
Adam Davis: All right, any other ways?
Kamden: Uh, I can meet friends here.
Adam Davis: And your friends are part of who you are?
Kamden: Uh, ya kinda,
Adam Davis: For someone who doesn't know you, who are you? Like, how do we understand who you are?
Kamden: Well, I am a cool kid.
Adam Davis: I wish people could see that smile and face you're making right now–when after you said that.
Rafael Otto: What does it mean to be a cool kid? I gotta ask.
Kamden: Uh, let's see. I can do a lot of stuff. Good? I don't know. I, uh, really like running. So, like, there's a running club here, and I really– I always like to do it.
Rafael Otto: And sports, it sounds like.
Kamden: Mm hmm.
Rafael Otto: Football?
Kamden: Yeah.
Rafael Otto: What do you like about football?
Kamden: Uh, yeah, like tackling, and then, I kind of just like the…. get a kind of… I really want to be quarterback and, like, throw the ball.
Rafael Otto: Yeah.
Kamden: Also, I really want to be a wide receiver.
Rafael Otto: But you've had a chance to score some touchdowns right, with the ball too, right? Yeah, I bet that feels good. What does it feel like to get in the end zone?
Kamden: I don't know. You just helped your team.
Adam Davis: Have you lived your whole life in Burns?
Kamden: Uh, no in preschool…well, I was born in John Day and I lived in John Day until kindergarten I went here.
Adam Davis: Do you think Burns is a part of who you are?
Kamden: Yeah, I don't know. Well I do, I did, when I started wrestling I was here, so. Wrestling and yeah, I had a lot of stuff here. Also I met more friends here. That's kind of part of it.
Adam Davis: So John Day, Burns, you ever think about the state of Oregon?
Kamden: Yeah, sometimes.
Adam Davis: Do you feel like you are an Oregonian?
Kamden: Yeah. Yeah, I guess.
Adam Davis: How so? What makes you an Oregonian?
Kamden: Well, I was born in Oregon.
Adam Davis: Anything else?
Kamden: I don't know. Not really.
Adam Davis: How about an American? Are you an American?
Kamden: Yeah, I guess.
Adam Davis: And what does that mean to you?
Kamden: I was born in America.
Adam Davis: Can you tell us your name and what grade you're in?
Mikeal: Mikeal Wilson. I'm in fourth grade.
Adam Davis: Have you lived in Burns your whole life?
Mikeal: Not really.
Adam Davis: Where else have you lived?
Mikeal: Well, me and my brother went to Washington to get born.
Adam Davis: Okay. Um, do you think Burns is a part of who you are? A big part of who you are?
Mikeal: I don't really like it because the one bullies were all in the school though.
Adam Davis: I hear ya.
Rafael Otto: Here at Burns?
Mikeal: Yeah.
Rafael Otto: Okay.
Adam Davis: What do you like to do when you're not at school?[00:10:00]
Mikeal: Take naps.
Rafael Otto: Naps are just fantastic. I love naps.
Adam Davis: That's pretty good. What did you guys do at the refuge on your field trip today? What did you look at? What did you do?
Mikeal: Learn about birds.
Adam Davis: Did you see a bunch of birds?
Mikeal: Yes.
Adam Davis: Do you know any of the names of the kinds of the birds you saw?
Mikeal: Turkey vulture.
Adam Davis: Hey, do you, uh, do you ever think about, like, the country we live in? The United States?
Mikeal: Sometimes, sometimes not.
Adam Davis: When you do, what do you think about?
Mikeal: I think about the American flag.
Adam Davis: What does that flag look like?
Mikeal: Red and white stripes and a blue rectangle. And fifty stars.
Rafael Otto: What does it mean to you?
Mikeal: If there's fifty stars, there's fifty states. But we don't want to drop it on the ground.
Adam Davis: How did you learn that?
Mikeal: From my brother.
Adam Davis: Why not? Why not drop it on the ground?
Mikeal: Because then it's disrespecting the flag.
Rafael Otto: And how does the flag make you feel a certain way? Do you, do you feel something when you think about the flag or you look at the flag?
Mikeal: Yeah.
Rafael Otto: What do you feel?
Mikeal: It makes me happy.
Adam Davis: Maybe last question. Do you know any jokes? You got a joke in your head you could share with Raphael and me?
Rafael Otto: I need a joke right now. You got something?
Mikeal: Hmm. Knock, knock.
Adam Davis: Uh, who's there?
Mikeal: The interrupting cow. Moo!
Adam Davis: Oh!
Rafael Otto: He gotcha. He gotcha Adam.
Adam Davis: I should know that cow by now. But I forgot about that cow.
Here's Penelope from fifth grade. And would you say Slater is like a part of who you are?
Penelope: Um, yeah, I've been going to the school for a long time my whole life. About six years.
Adam Davis: Okay. Yeah. How does it make you who you are?
Penelope: That's a really good community. Like PE, it teaches you how to get along with others and work in teams.
And in STEM, it teaches you different parts of your brains. We just played chess today, and we had a tournament and that was fun. And it just helps you be an overall good person.
Adam Davis: And are you in Burns or Hines? Where do you live?
Penelope: Burns.
Adam Davis: Burns. Is Burns a part of who you are?
Penelope: Yeah. Um, yeah, I'd say so because all our softball fields are there and I like to play softball and do sports like that.
So the softball fields are down there and I love to do that and things like that, yeah.
Adam Davis: What position do you play?
Penelope: I play pitcher.
Adam Davis: Pitcher.
Penelope: Or first base, if I'm not doing pitcher.
Adam Davis: All right, and where do you bat in the lineup usually?
Penelope: I'm like third or fourth.
Adam Davis: Okay. So you're bringing the runs home. Great. What about Oregon? Do you feel like you're an Oregonian?
Penelope: Yeah.
Adam Davis: So you laughed a little bit. Why do you laugh a little at that one?
Penelope: Because Oregonian, that's just like, like a weird term.
Rafael Otto: What's, what's weird about it?
Penelope: I don't know. It's just like an Oregonian, like, weird.
Rafael Otto: Yeah, it's kind of a funny sounding word, isn't it? But what does it mean to you to be from Oregon?
Penelope: I feel like Oregon people are very outdoorsy. Like, they love nature, they love to go camping, they love swimming, all that stuff.
Adam Davis: And I'm gonna push one level further, so we're like, Slater, Burns, Oregon, United States. United States, okay. Do you feel [00:14:00] like you're American in some way?
Penelope: Yes.
Adam Davis: How so? What does it mean that you're American?
Penelope: Um, Um, that I'm American.
I don't know how to answer this…, about that I'm… okay, so, I guess just like our culture and like our food and my mom's white and then my dad is Mexican, he's 50 percent and my mom is 100 percent white. So, yeah, so on her side, we like to do things American, Christmas, all that, we don't really do any other holidays, we just are American, yeah.
Adam Davis: What's the food like in your house? Is it a mix of both your dad's and your mom's cultures? How's the food show up?
Penelope: My mom, she usually cooks American food. Yeah, she doesn't really… She likes to pretend that she's Mexican. Yeah, so she'll be like, she'll try to say some Spanish and stuff and be like, I should be more fluent in Spanish.
But then my grandma, she comes over every day after school, well, usually every day, and she makes us something. And she usually makes us like steak tacos– a bunch of traditional Mexican food.
Adam Davis: Among your classmates or your friends, are there a lot of people that are from a few different cultures and a few places, or are most people from just one culture and place? Do you have a sense of that?
Penelope: I'd say yeah, there are a bunch of different people from a bunch of different cultures. We have a lot of Native Americans here. We have a reservation here, too. And yeah, there's a bunch, there's a lot of people from all over.
Rafael Otto: And are you able to kind of share those cultures and identities, talk about that, you know, share similarities and differences together?
Does it feel like you can do that as a community?
Penelope: Yeah.
Rafael Otto: And what might that look like?
Penelope: Um, well, we have a bunch of events here. We have like…it's called… well, we have a bunch of gatherings and stuff, [00:16:00] and we have a bunch of little, not parties, but like get-togethers and stuff.
And then there's a bunch of things and then people can go sell stuff from their culture and they, yeah, usually do that.
Rafael Otto: Hmm. So if I'm talking to a friend of yours, and I say, tell me about Penelope, what do you think they would tell me?
Penelope: I don't know.
Rafael Otto: Like, a couple things. I mean, they might say, you know, one or two things.
Penelope: They might say that I'm athletic, and I talk a lot.
Rafael Otto: Okay, would you agree with that? Are they right?
Penelope: Yeah.
Rafael Otto: Okay.
Adam Davis: Can you start by telling us your name and what grade and school?
Sawyer: My name is Sawyer Gailey and I'm in fifth grade. I go to Slater Elementary.
Adam Davis: So you know how we were asking a little bit about Hines and Burns and Slater? What about Oregon? Do you think Oregon is a part of who you are?
Sawyer: Yeah.
Adam Davis: How so?
Sawyer: Most of the time when I do sports, when we travel most of the time it's in Oregon. John Day, Baker, Salem, places like that.
Adam Davis: And even though those are different places, do they feel like there's something Oregon about all of them?
Sawyer: Yeah.
Adam Davis: Can you, can you say what that thing is? Like, what is it that makes them all Oregon? Aside from the fact that they're in the state. Anything else?
Sawyer: Mainly, like, the people. Where I used to live most of the time they would, we would act different. Bit different.
Adam Davis: Where did you use to live?
Sawyer: We, before we moved here, we lived in Texas.
Adam Davis: What part of Texas?
Sawyer: Um, you know, around the southern, or southeast, southwest area.
Adam Davis: So what felt different about Texas than Oregon to you?
Sawyer: In Texas it's a bit more hotter. We don't get as much snow, uh, it's way bigger than here. Quite a few more small towns and cities. And, I could interact with more people.
Adam Davis: You could interact with more people?
Sawyer: Yeah. Like, most of the time when I'm playing online games it's just like, in our area, so I would get to play with more people.
Rafael Otto: And is there anything else about, like, do you act different when you go to different places?
Sawyer: Mmm, kinda, yeah. I had to kinda learn the people. And, like, what they do here.
Rafael Otto: Say more about what does it take to learn the people?
Sawyer: Like, to kind of watch them, see how they act, and then act like that.
Rafael Otto: And do you kind of mimic that a little bit?
Sawyer: Mmm, a little bit, yeah.
Rafael Otto: Yeah? And is there something specific that you feel like you had to change about yourself?
Sawyer: Not really, no.
Rafael Otto: Mm hmm. So you're still yourself, but maybe you're picking up some differences that you take on as well? Okay. Is there anything specific that comes to mind? Like something that you had to do?
Sawyer: Probably be not as crazy.
Rafael Otto: Not as crazy? You don't strike me as someone who's particularly crazy.
Sawyer: I am crazy.
Rafael Otto: How so?
Sawyer: Most of the time I have a ton of energy.
Rafael Otto: Okay.
Adam Davis: Really?
Sawyer: Really. Really.
Adam Davis: You're just saving it right now.
Sawyer: Yes
Rafael Otto: So after school what does crazy Sawyer look like
Sawyer: Running around, tackling my brothers, playing with my animals, playing with my cats, wrestling with my dog ,wrestling with my brothers, playing video games.
Adam Davis: So we talked about Oregon a little bit, in Texas a little bit. Can I ask you about America?
Sawyer: America's great.
Adam Davis: Why do you say that? What's…what do you think when you say America's great?
Sawyer: I haven't really been out of the country, so I don't really know, but from what I've seen from stories from other people that have been out, it's a lot different. Like the culture, the towns, the army, all stuff like that. It's the food. Ability and stuff like that. Yeah.
Adam Davis: Mm-Hmm. Do you, do you guys say the Pledge in your class?
Sawyer: Um, no, not anymore. Not anymore.
Adam Davis: You used to? Not anymore.
Sawyer: Yeah.
Adam Davis: Okay.
Sawyer: I don't know why
Adam Davis: It just went away.
Sawyer: Yeah.
Rafael Otto: Okay. Um, is there, is there something you remember about the Pledge? Do you remember saying it? Do you wish it would come back?
Sawyer: I don't really wish it would come back, but I do know it.
Rafael Otto: Okay.
Sawyer: I really don't mind doing it.
Rafael Otto: Do you think you could try saying it for us?
Sawyer: Can't really remember.
Rafael Otto: Okay, that's okay. Is there something, like what do you remember about it? What does it make you think of?
Sawyer: America.
Rafael Otto: Anything in particular?
Sawyer: Uh, like, um, kind of on 9/11 how we lost a, kind of a lot of people.
Rafael Otto: Yeah, okay. So it makes you think about a tragic event? And is that it, that sad when you think about it? Is it difficult to think about that?
Sawyer: Um, it shows us that, it shows, it tells me that we survived even after 9/11 and World War I, World War II, things like that.
Rafael Otto: Okay, so there's also…
Sawyer: We still come back up even if we get pushed down. [00:22:00]
Adam Davis: Maybe I'll ask first for you just the same question we ask each of the kids, which is, Can you tell us your name and what you do at this school?
Becca Birch: My name is Becca Birch, and I am the Vice Principal at the elementary school, and I am also the AVID District Director for our whole district.
Adam Davis: This is an odd question, so apologies in advance, but when you're thinking about educating elementary school students here, is there a hope they stay Harney County? Stay in Oregon? or are you agnostic about that? Like what are the thoughts about that?
Becca Birch: Well, I would consider, well, I don't consider myself, I've been told that I am a transplant because I am not from Harney County.
So prior to coming here, I would have never really thought about it. Didn't mean too much to me. You know, you just… you are raised in a certain place. If you leave, you leave. If you come back, you come back. And after living here for a year and then leaving and then coming back, there's this sense of pride about Harney County that I can't quite describe and I don't quite understand it, but when students are in the school and they say, Oh yeah, you know, I just want to keep living here forever. I want to have a job here. There is, there's a sense of pride. And I feel like I definitely encourage that. And it's great to see that. Children are growing up in this environment and they see the values that people have here and the work ethic that's developed and they want to keep that here and yeah, it never meant that much to me before because I thought you know US. It's a big place. It's good, but Harney County there's something about it where you try and leave and it just keeps pulling you back.
Adam Davis: Can I ask about the relationship between the pride and the sense? Of being a transplant?
Becca Birch: Yeah. What do you want to know?
Adam Davis: Well, like I moved out to Oregon from Chicago 11 years ago, and I don't think I'd ever been in a place before where people said I'm a fifth generation Oregonian.
And, that felt like pride and it also felt a little bit like you're not from here. Yes. So I'm curious about– especially given that you both went away and came back and that you came here from somewhere else, how you see those things going together or not–the pride about being from here and the sense of who is or isn't from here.
Becca Birch: Yeah. Our first year here, It was kind of hard to feel like I was established. But the people of Harney County, whether they're, you know, first generation or fifth, like you had mentioned, there is the sense that, well, hey, if you're going to come here and you're going to be, you know, upholding the values that we have here in Harney County, and you're going to, you know, be part of our community and involved and invested, They want you to stay. After I left I definitely felt that and I missed it and then coming back, there is that pride of, yeah, I am from Harney County. And you know what, I am, like I said, transplant brand new here. We don't have, you know, deep roots of lots of family, but those roots have to start somewhere.
So with our family, that's definitely what we're trying to establish. So maybe generations down the road, we can say, Hey, guess what? We have been in Harney County for five generations.
Rafael Otto: You know, I'm just thinking of your role in the school and we're talking to all these young kids too, about their perspective around this. And it just got me curious about thinking of them growing up here. What are your hopes for these kids growing up in this school? How do you think about their futures? I hope that's not like too big of a question. But you know, it's like I've talked with so many educators and they often think about that. They're often feeling like they're doing the groundwork to set these kids off in the right direction somehow. And I just wanted to get your thoughts on that.
Becca Birch: Yeah, I definitely, well, I have a first grader here and I have an incoming kindergartner. So when I think about the kids of this school, they're, they're my kids too.
And I think every educator feels like all the kids are their kids. So we do have the collective feeling that we want these kids to feel proud of where they come from and to have the values that are going to be able to help them. Be successful in life, no matter what they do. And going back to our mission and vision of our school, we want every child to feel embraced and educated and empowered to be who they are and to just walk in their purpose.
And I feel like the school with the values we uphold and our family atmosphere, that's something that we really try and push for every single kid.
Adam Davis: You're listening to The Detour by Oregon Humanities. That was Becca Birch, Slater Elementary's vice principal. Now we'll hear from the folks from Highland Elementary School in Grants Pass.
Here's Ripley from first grade.
Ripley: I'm in first grade, and my name is Ripley.
Adam Davis: Cool. This is a kind of open first question, but are there ways that, uh, that Highland, your school, has, like, helped you think about being generous or helped you practice being generous?
Ripley: No, I just—when I got born, my mom was really nice, so I just got it from her.
Adam Davis: That's pretty sweet.
Rafael Otto: Do you talk to your mom about kindness and being intentional about that?
Ripley: No, but they know a lot about it.
Rafael Otto: What else do they know about it? Why is it important?
Ripley: Because, because people in life, they have to have friends. Otherwise, they're just gonna be lonely and sad.
Rafael Otto: Do you think about yourself also as someone who's from Oregon?
Ripley: Yes.
Rafael Otto: What does that mean to you?
Ripley: For me, I believe it means that you can become friends with people, and that you know a lot about Oregon.
Adam Davis: Are there a couple things about Oregon that you think like huh, this is Oregon?
Ripley: There's a lot of greenery and there's a lot of houses and animals. So I would recognize if it's Oregon.
Adam Davis: That makes a lot of sense. Can I ask, do you at school or in your class do you say the Pledge of Allegiance at all?
Ripley: Yes, every day.
Adam Davis: When you say the Pledge do you think about the United States? Ripley: Yes
Adam Davis: How would you describe the United States to people who don't know anything about that?
Ripley: I would tell them that our first president was very good and that it's a good place to live.
Rafael Otto: Have you traveled outside of Oregon?
Ripley: Yes.
Rafael Otto: Where have you gone?
Ripley: I've gone to Catalina Island, and there's another place, but I can't really remember its name.
Rafael Otto: Did it feel different from Oregon, from home?
Ripley: Yes.
Rafael Otto: How so?
Ripley: Because when we were out there, it was like a desert land, but since we brought like video games and other stuff to keep us from getting too, like, tired—So we don't get bored. We just had fun.
Adam Davis: Here's Sawyer from fifth grade. How much of Highland Elementary informs who you are?
Sawyer: Um, I mean, quite a big bit. I've been here since kindergarten, so it's really kinda, it's been a really great school and it's been really good to me.
Adam Davis: And what about Grants Pass? Does Grants Pass feel like it has a lot to do with who you are?
Sawyer: Yes, I was born in Washington and then moved to Texas, but I've been in Grants Pass for the majority of my life.
Adam Davis: How does it feel like Grants Pass has shaped you so far?
Sawyer: I mean, it's a really great little spot and it's kind of where you can get to know a lot of people here. And it's just been like, it's been really great to be able to be here for the majority of my life. And I wouldn't really be anywhere else in Oregon.
Rafael Otto: Are there things that as you know, an American or someone from the United States, like what is it when you think of the, the whole US—is it other states? Is it the president? Is it what kinds of things come up?
Sawyer: I think of these things that make the United States the United States, like greasy burgers and hot dogs and corn dogs and things like that.
Rafael Otto: I love that.
Adam Davis: This feels important, so I want to make sure I got it right. You said greasy burgers.
Sawyer: Yep.
Adam Davis: Corn dogs.
Sawyer: Yep.
Adam Davis: Hot dogs.
Sawyer: Yep.
Adam Davis: Anything you'd add to that list?
Sawyer: And really greasy pizza.
Rafael Otto: Okay. Can you tell us a little bit more about school? Like, what are the things that you really like about being in school? Maybe there's something you don't like so much about being in school?
Sawyer: Um, for starters, I love my teacher, Mrs. Jackson. She's really nice and really kind and really helpful. And my classroom, we call it the Zen Den. We're known for that in fifth grade. And it's really nice. It's just kind of like a second home to me.
Adam Davis: That's amazing. That's unusual, so that's great to hear.
Rafael Otto: And since you just came off of some testing, can you tell us about that?
Sawyer: I mean, state testing is always a little stressful because it's state testing, but I think that I did pretty well, and being in this class definitely helped this year.
Rafael Otto: Is there something that you wish you could be doing in school that you aren't now?
Sawyer: Probably things like in middle school, like CTE, which is Woodshop, Career and Technical Education, so I wish that we had that in elementary school.
Rafael Otto: Anything else come to mind?
Sawyer: Just that.
Rafael Otto: So maybe, maybe in the fall you'll get a chance to do that.
Sawyer: Yeah.
Rafael Otto: When you move into sixth grade.
Sawyer: Mm hmm.
Adam Davis: So, you know how we were asking questions about Grants Pass, the state, the country. Do you say the pledge in the morning?
Sawyer: Yes, every day.
Adam Davis: And do you say it out loud? Do you listen to it? How does that work?
Sawyer: We say it out loud as a class.
Adam Davis: What's that like for you?
Sawyer: Um, it just kind of, I feel like it binds us together as a class, as a school, and as a community.
Adam Davis: Do you ever think about the words in there?
Sawyer: Sometimes. It definitely isn't the thing that makes the most sense to me, but I know that it's important to the US.
Adam Davis: So, that's interesting what you just said. Can you say a little more about that?
Sawyer: I just feel like it's one thing that all Americans have in common, that they know the pledge, and that they live it, they breathe it, because we're Americans and we live in America.
Adam Davis: So it sounds like you're saying the important thing is that everyone's saying it.
Sawyer: Yeah.
Adam Davis: Huh. I like that way of thinking about it. Yeah.
Rafael Otto: Do you think people have the same understanding of what it means? Do they share that?
Sawyer: I mean, maybe. I feel like there are definitely a lot of different ways that you could think about it. And people, you know, they think about it in different ways and it's not like everybody thinks the same way. Because if they did, then the world wouldn't be as it is today.
Rafael Otto: So, what are some of those differences in the way people think about it that you understand.
Sawyer: Um, you could think about it as like, you're being an American and you're living in America, or you could think about it as something you just say in school every morning.
Adam Davis: Do you have questions in your head about either the pledge or the flag or the country? Are there questions that come to mind?
Sawyer: Like, how did the pledge form? Did somebody just make it up and then it caught on? Or how did it come to be?
Adam Davis: I should say I was not promising answers. I was curious to hear your question. That's a great question. My last question if you were gonna—like what you were just talking about—who wrote the pledge. What if you were gonna—would it be crazy to have like a pledge of allegiance to Grants Pass?
Sawyer: No, I mean It's specific. And it's Grants Pass. It's not just some place. It's Grants Pass specifically.
Adam Davis: So anything you'd want to be sure is included in your pledge of allegiance to Grants Pass?
Sawyer: No, I just—I want to make sure that it includes everybody in the community.
Rafael Otto: I have another final question for you. And that's just, you know, if you, if you wanted to tell a story to help someone understand who you are, what, what would you tell them?
Sawyer: I would tell them that I love school. That I play soccer. I've moved around quite a bit, specifically when I was younger, and that I'm happy to live in Grants Pass, which is where I am now, and that I'm happy that we moved here, and that we've stayed here for six years, which is the majority of my life.
Adam Davis: Here’s Hanith, who along with his twin, Harshine, is five years old. We spoke to their mom, Lakshmi, who we'll hear from a little later in this episode, too. Can you start by telling us your name and how old you are?
Hanith: I'm Hanith and I'm five.
Adam Davis: You are five. Have you been five for a while?
Hanith: I was four when I turned five.
Adam Davis: Hmm. That's a good sequence. How do you like being five?
Hanith: I'm so excited. I like being five. I also like when I get bigger.
Adam Davis: Why? What do you think is going to be there when you get bigger?
Hanith: Um, I will get a new car.
Adam Davis: That's good. Yeah, that sounds good. Have you been in Grants Pass for all five years?
Hanith: I moved from Pendleton to Grants Pass. It takes a long way.
Adam Davis: That is a long way. I'm going to Pendleton next week. So I'm going the reverse order of you. Okay. What do you think about when you think about Grants Pass? What's it like?
Hanith: I like the ducks. And I also like the new park at Reinhardt Park.
Rafael Otto: Could you tell us a couple of other things about yourself, like things that you like to do, things that you enjoy?
Hanith: Races.
Rafael Otto: What kind of races?
Hanith: Um, toy races.
Rafael Otto: Okay, and what else?
Hanith: Playing hide and seek.
Rafael Otto: Classic game. Excellent game. Are you good at it?
Hanith: I hide in great spots.
Rafael Otto: Okay, so you're hard to find.
Hanith: Yeah.
Rafael Otto: Yeah, so you're pretty good at playing the game, right?
Hanith: Yeah.
Rafael Otto: Okay, what are some things that you like to do when you're in school?
Hanith: Doing puzzles. Playing with my friend Scotland.
Adam Davis: Excellent.
Hanith: Elizabeth and most important, Aria.
Adam Davis: Why is Aria the most important?
Hanith: She plays with me a lot.
Adam Davis: Do you think, um, do you think your school helps you become who you are? That's a weird question, but like, how does, how is who you are related to being at school?
Hanith: That's my favorite part. And I also like the things they have there.
Rafael Otto: Are you the same you when you're at school and when you're at home?
Hanith: Hmmmmm. Yeah.
Adam Davis: You had to think about it a little bit though. What were you thinking about?
Hanith: Myself.
Adam Davis: When you think about yourself, what kinds of stuff do you think, like, how would you describe yourself to someone who didn't know you?
Hanith: Um. Some of the people don't know me. I moved from Jacob, and Kurt moved from, he lives here. Then he moved to Roseburg. And we went to Portland to check me and my sister's eyes.
Adam Davis: Do you think you would be a different person if you lived in Portland instead of Grants Pass?
Hanith: There's a lot of Indians in Portland.
Adam Davis: And would that change, would that be different for you if you were with more people who are Indian?
Hanith: Hmm, no. Um, yeah.
Adam Davis: Maybe a little bit of both?
Hanith: Maybe.
Adam Davis: Maybe. Yeah.
Hanith: Yeah. I also know where, where, which, I know what country I born in.
Adam Davis: Which country?
Hanith: Washington.
Adam davis: About, uh, five years ago.
Hanith: Um, I think so.
Adam Davis: So let me just, let me just be, so it's kinda, it seems like there's a lot of different places that go into who you are. Do you think, do you think India is a part of who you are?
Hanith: My dad and mom borned there.
Adam Davis: And so that's part of you. Yeah.
Hanith: Yeah. And my dad and my mom.
Adam Davis: Definitely. Yeah. Yeah.
Here's Lakshmi, the mom of five-year-olds Hanith and Harshine, who has some interesting things to say about talking to her kids about race and identity in a place where they look different from many of their friends, and what it means to belong to two or more places.
Rafael Otto: Your son made an observation when we were talking about Grants Pass and other places in Portland, and he said, there are more Indians in Portland. And I was curious about that sort of aspect of his identity and how you think he might think about that or understand that.
Lakshmi: He got, like, the color situation with a friend sometimes. So he asked us, like, why we have brown skin. And then we told that we both are from India. So, but he said, like, I born in Washington.
But still you have Indian parents. And that, and, uh, he said like, okay, then, uh, we told him that we read about the immigration books and the brown kids’ books like “Anjali” and all those books. And we tried to tell him that, you born here and then your origin is from India. So you both belong to both countries.
So he proudly says, sometimes, like, if anybody ask him, like, why his color is brown or something, he says, like, I born in Washington. My parents are from India. So I am, I'm Indian American. So now he, initially, he's like, why they're asking like that and he don't know anything. Why they're asking, why they're saying like that.
But after we are telling him and we are letting him know like all the things, he's like accepted it and then he's like, fine. Even, even if anybody is like kind of bullying him with the color and all the stuff, he's proudly say like, I'm special. We just say like, you say like I'm special. He's like, “I am… I have two countries, India, America. I was born in Washington, and I am special,” he's saying now.
So, he's, when we went to, in last month, I think two weeks back, for their eye checkups, yearly eye checkups in OHSU, we went to the Indian grocery store as well. So, he saw lots of Indian people over there. So, maybe that's the instant he has that connection.
Rafael Otto: Yeah, thank you for sharing. There was, there was something there that, you know, that he was observing. And I just, I wanted to ask you about that. And what about with Harshine? Does she have a similar experience or thoughts around it?
Lakshmi: She still is in kind of dilemma. Sometimes she accepted that. Hmm. Okay. But sometimes she wants more. I want [to be] a little more fair. But, um, but she likes herself and she, she's strong by herself and she stand up for herself and, um, Miss Blanchett gives lots of resources and information about that if they feel like that way and then what I need to do and then what kind of books I need to read for them.
But, she's, most of the time she's accepting, but sometimes. She likes the, like the way her friends do be like, so.
Rafael Otto: Sure. Yeah. And talking to your kids about identity and heritage and race and skin color, what's that like for you?
Lakshmi: If kids don't know, kids don't know, I think, so all the kids are saying they don't know. If they get that question, uh, maybe that is about the curious. If we are correcting them, if we are telling the right information, they will listen and then they will accept. If it comes from the parent's side, I can't, you know, because only our emotions and feelings are in our control. So that, that's what I'm making my kids like, you can't control or judge anybody's emotions.
You have to be in charge of yourself. So you have to react in any kind of situations. Be like confident and accept or move on. Those kind of things I'm telling them. So kids, I think all the kids are same.
Rafael Otto: So big, big things to be talking about with kids that are five years old.
Lakshmi: They have to survive in this, in this world. So we are doing whatever we can with the help of all the teachers. Fortunately, I'm so nervous before finding good preschools here because they went to a very good school, like good school, means like the teachers and everybody is like love them and accept them. It's a very good one. After like, no, I don't know any people here or anything, but we found good teachers here. Ms. Bars and Ms. Musser and Ms. Blanchard. Three of them loves three of the teachers, so the, even the music school teachers, like, we found a good role model, like, because they are very good with them and guiding them, so I'm so happy with the education sector here.
Nevin Van Manen: So my name is Nevin Van Manen. And, uh, I'm the principal here. Been here six years. Been in this district for 25, coming up at the end of 25 years. So, my whole career in education has been in Grants Pass. And so, I didn't grow up here, but I bleed blue here. Grants Pass blue, so.
Adam Davis: Can I ask, when you say that, what do you mean?
Nevin Van Manen: You know, in our town, in Grants Pass, you'll go to a lot of places, you'll see “We Are GP.” I don't know if anybody's talked to you about that today, but, um, it's a logo. It's in our schools. It has trickled out to now our police cars which have “We Are GP” on it. And it is just sort of a community identity of this is Grants Pass, this is who we are. It started in the schools as kind of a way to come together.
Originally, it was around early like behavior support, like PBIS was a big thing for a while and it still is, but kind of a new whole district-wide idea of who are we as a collective school district. And, um, it just kind of stuck. And so, you know, we go to admin meetings and we always end with, “We are GP.”
And you go to football games, you see, “We are GP,” and at Redwood, you'll see, “We are GP Redwood” and “We are GP Allendale.” And it's just kind of a community, community cry out around. So….
Rafael Otto: On that, you know, the slogan, “We are GP.” And when I was talking to Annie before I came down, she was really talking about how the community is, has become more connected through the work that she feels like she's doing and through the school. And so does the, does that slogan, does that feel like it's a way for people to feel like they're a community or connected to each other?
Nevin Van Manen: I think so. I mean, I think, especially with the work she's doing, if I think most people in our town, when they see “We are GP” there, they know what that is.
They know what that means. They know. You know, that it kind of starts in the schools, but it's kind of a community, you know, Grants Pass, you know, it was “Friday Night Lights.” Like, if you want to be where you're supposed to be on Friday, you're at the football game.
Rafael Otto: What does being an Oregonian mean to you?
Nevin Van Manen: In our community? I think down here. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be political, but it, I feel like down here, the sense of being Oregonian is perhaps a little bit more, um, dissonant than in other places in the state. Just, we have strong, we have very strong tendencies towards like really independent thinking, you'll find people that are, you know, hey, we want to be part of Idaho, you know, um, or we want to be part of, you know, Northern California as a new state.
Leave Eugene and them to be and the rest of us in a sense of our, you know, our vote doesn't matter down here. I mean, I'm just saying, community wise, it's, it's out there like, well, doesn't matter what we do, because however Portland votes is how the state's going to go. So, I think the sense of, of that down here is perhaps a little bit more sort of, if you ask a whole bunch of people, what does it mean to be an Oregonian down here? You'll get a fair amount of people that kind of tap into sort of the independent spirit of what it means to be an Oregonian and hey, we got this just leave us alone kind of thing. I think I… but in all that I think there's a lot of pride in being from Oregon.
Adam Davis: So let me bump it one level further out.
Nevin Van Manen: Keep bumping.
Adam Davis: All right. So Grants Pass, Oregon—then there's the country, and it sounds like kids here the whole school says the pledge every morning?
Nevin Van Manen: We do.
Adam Davis: So can I ask, what do you think about the pledge every morning? And how do you think about the country, uh, as a unit of association relative to say, Oregon or Grants Pass?
Nevin Van Manen: What do I think about the pledge? Hmm. Well, I think it's an, I think for us, it's an important piece of teaching our kids and reminding our adults and myself about the greater good parts of being an American, right? And because we have a lot of kids right now, with 24-hour news cycles, and I don't care if it's Fox or MSNBC, somebody's got this thing on and kids are hearing this, and kids can read bumper stickers. And some of them now are not always really kid appropriate.
But, you know, I think our kids are kind of more aware of politics than they've, you know, I don't care who was president, I just wanted to go out and play, right? You know, but I think it's just this constant bombardment of information. And some of it, I don't think is a great reflection of what it means to be an American, quite honestly.
So, I think when we come back to that every morning, there's that piece. There's also the community piece. It's knowing that we collectively, as a school, as a district, because I know at least in our elementary schools, I'm not, I, I won't say about, I think middle schools do, and I think the high school does, but I know that like we collectively do this every day, and I think it, we have a lot of people, myself included, that have been impacted by veterans and the service piece of what people have done for our country. And, you know, I think it's an important thing that we take that minute every day and just say, Hey, this is part of being an American. And that's a good part of being an American.
Adam Davis: I'm thinking about “We are GP” and the pledge to the United States and how those two things go together.
Nevin Van Manen: Well, in our community, I would say, in general, this is a very patriotic community. Now, how different people within the community want to interpret what it means to be an American, you're going to get as much of a spectrum as there is a spectrum of people, right? But I think, you know, we've got a Memorial Day weekend coming up.
And for us, it's a big weekend-long festival. And there's, you know, there's rides at the park, and there's boat races, and we call it Boatnik, but the Memorial Day parade is kind of the highlight moment. And it is a Memorial Day parade. I mean, it's what it is.
Adam Davis: How do these feelings come to bear on Highland Elementary? On kindergarteners or third graders?
Nevin Van Manen: Wow. I think for me, part of it is just knowing that that is a, that is a community value. You know, that, that, that is part of the community of Grants Pass. It may, I don't know other communities. It may not be a value in, in the U.S. wherever, right? But in our community, knowing that the majority of our families coming in are proud of this country and proud of the veterans who've served in their family.
And, and if the flag goes up, you stand up for it and you take your cap off. And if you don't, somebody is going to nudge you and say, dude, you know, pledge, take your cap off. That's what you do. Right? And I think that's part of living in Grant Pass. So.
Rafael Otto: Yeah, I was going to ask sort of that similar question. Just recognizing that, like you said, the kids are observing things. They're learning things about each other. They're reading, seeing bumper stickers. And like, there's an aspect of them, you know, how do you, how do you help them wrestle with some of these questions, like with these varying opinions that their parents have and think, you know, are you helping them think through what that means for them?
Niven Van Manen: To the extent we can, you have to really draw lines about your own personal political beliefs in all of this, of course, but I think when, when it's appropriate to have conversations about with kids, about listening to what other people are saying, and just being able to listen to it and, and saying, like, for me, it's about teaching kids to say, it's okay if you believe that, and it's okay if I don't, and it's to really honestly think an eight or nine year old really knows where they're at politically, they don't. There. It's what they hear. It's what they've grown up with, ok, that's the culture of their house. But every time we have a presidential election there's always a little cleanup work we have to do on the playground where somebody's running around saying, you know this guy's an idiot that guy's an idiot. Things that are less….
No, we're not gonna do that. It's okay for somebody to feel that way believe that and it's okay for you not to that's what we were talking about when we're coming in It's like we have kind of lost the art of discourse in general, and so I'd love to think that some of what we're doing is trying to reteach kids to have conversations and listen and be ok, just like agree to disagree.
And yet all of our modeling, quite honestly, is it's not okay. You know, it's not okay to agree to disagree. You better line up with somebody or, you know.
Adam Davis: I maybe just have one more question. And I'm thinking about newcomers or perceived outsiders, uh, as someone who moved to Oregon myself 11 years ago from a very different place and moved around a bit before that. How does that work? How does it work with something like “We Are GP” where there's a strong sense of shared identity, and how can you build into that space for people that are new to it and coming in, like new students? Or just students, staff, the school? How to work on that—both the strong sense of shared purpose and identity and room for people that are coming in
Nevin Van Manen: Yeah, well, I would think maybe off to the side of that, and this is strictly philosophical on my part, but I do wonder sometimes if that can't have the inverse effect of feeling like a closed off community, right?
I think more we're a closed off community perhaps because our housing prices aren't welcoming to families. We don't have jobs that support our, our housing prices, right? Grants Pass is a pretty desirable community as far as, you know, our schools are strong. It's beautiful. You can ski, you can water ski, you can fish, you can hunt, you can, you know, be outside. You're an hour from the coast, you know. But I think we have eliminated our openness to outsiders, but people who want to come to our community just simply on the economics of, yeah, we'd love to live in Grants Pass. We can't afford whatever it is for a basic house to raise my family in or find a job to support that.
But having said that, I think there's just kind of also a natural draw when people come in like this. You'll hear like, this community just felt like the right place for our family. I don't know where they get that from. Like what, like what, what's the vibe that you picked up that you thought, nope, this is right for us.
But a lot of times, that's what we'll hear is like, hmm, we're here, we love it, this is where we want to be.
Adam Davis: That was Nevin Van Manen, Highland Elementary's principal. You can find some photos of our time at Highland and Slater Elementaries in our show notes at oregonhumanities.org.
This detour is produced by Kieren Bond. Kyle Gilmer is our editor. Ben Waterhouse, Karina Briski, and Alexandra Silvester are our assistant producers. Rafael Otto from the Children's Institute and I want to say a huge thank you to all the people we talked with at both schools and all the people who make these schools and communities what they are.
Thanks to all of you for listening. See you next time.